I’ve had it up to here with advice columnist Amy Alkon, a.k.a. “the advice goddess.” She’s syndicated in (according to her Web site) over 100 papers across the U.S., including, unfortunately, my local weekly.
Apparently her only training came from giving advice on street corners – she appears to have no psychological training or even any sort of grasp of basic gender theory, yet she gets paid to mouth off dating advice that hasn’t been realistic since sometime before the invention of color TV.
Her columns frequently make reference to tired old gender stereotypes and pass them off as “scientific” or “evolutionary” fact: that all men desire thin, young women – and lots of them; and of course, all women desire rich men and monogamy. Men don’t like women who make the first move; women don’t like men who are “too sensitive.” I haven’t taken an anthropology course in over a decade, and even I know that’s just sexist propaganda. But don’t take my word for it – read Natalie Angier’s “Woman: An Intimate Geography.”
Her latest column, “Donut Seem Unfair?” really takes the cake. In it, a frustrated husband (“Weighed Down”) is upset that his wife has gained 20 pounds and now he isn’t attracted to her. What’s worse, the wife says she’s happy with her weight! She’s not even dieting, for god’s sake! The horrors!
True to form, Alkon tows the patriarchal line. She agrees with Weighed Down, likening the wife’s gaining weight to the husband suddenly deciding to quit his job – like natural bodily changes are some sort of defiance against reasonable expectations of responsibility. She repeats the tired old line about how men’s libidos are primarily visual – with the assumption that wives are supposed to cater to said libidos.
Here’s where it gets really stupid: She defines marriage as a business partnership, one where “each partner has their end of the bargain to hold up, including not becoming substantially different from the person the other person married.” Wow. What a stunning lack of understanding of human nature.
Aside from the inner growth that most humans experience throughout their lives, what about the simple reality of aging? I mean, despite all the diets and gym time, eventually shit will sag. Hair will turn grey. Wrinkles will appear. On both men and women. If a woman writes to complain that her husband of 20 years is going bald, will she give the same advice to her? After all, in Amy Alkon world, we’re not supposed to change! We’re obligated by the marriage contract to stay the same!
Shit, even the Christians know this is unrealistic. That’s why their wedding vows include “for better or for worse, in sickness and in health.” In other words, loving your partner through all the changes and trials and bad haircuts. That’s what a real partnership means.
And to Weighed Down’s wife: you go girl. Leave that shallow asshole and find a man who appreciates a big, beautiful, confident woman.
52 responses so far ↓
Anna // March 19, 2009 at 8:21 pm |
Great post. I can’t believe ideas like this still get play. Aren’t we over it yet? Isn’t real life and the real world a more compelling argument than advice columns like this?
Amy Alkon // March 20, 2009 at 4:11 pm |
Actually, I started on the street corner but, why remain there? I read everything in psychology from Freud on, studied Albert Ellis, who I’m seriously influenced by, and read the same journals and attend the same conferences as professionals in anthropology, ev. psych, psychology, sexology, and studies about the family. And I’m respected by researchers in the field. Why would you assume I wouldn’t feel a responsibility to educate myself and keep up on the latest in research? For the record, I take a science- (evidence-) based approach to the stuff I write. Because you don’t like what I write doesn’t mean it’s based only in my opinion or bad data; quite the contrary. Furthermore, I have an epidemiologist who kicks my ass about recognizing what is and isn’t good study methodology, study limitations, etc. You can dislike what I say because it doesn’t fit with feminist propaganda, but if there’s one thing you can’t say it’s that I don’t do my homework, and then some.
I remember reading errors in Angier’s work – can’t recall them now, and don’t have time to look them up. But, I have the book and because of those errors do not refer to it in my column.
The evidence-based answer and feminism’s rules of the way things should be are sometimes far apart.
Women who are wise will do the best they can to maintain their looks — starting with following actual dietary science which I took great pains to concisely present in my column.
French women are an example of women who take care of themselves as they age. I go to Paris often. You do not see old fat women there. You see beautiful older women — wrinkled, definitely not spring chickens, but women who continue to be vital into their older years. That’s what I aspire to persuade American women to do — and I’m very proud of the substantial research and thinking I put into my column, and this column in particular.
D.R. Bartlette // March 20, 2009 at 4:40 pm |
Well, hello, Amy. I’m flattered you popped in to defend yourself here. Google Alerts is a wonderful thing.
Thanks for giving me all your other credentials. I certainly wouldn’t discount what sounds like self-taught education. I would have given you credit if it was on your Web site – but I could only go on what’s there.
I’m a fairly well-read, self-taught amateur myself. I read extensively about anthropology (I was only a semester away from a degree in it as an undergrad, plus I just enjoy reading about it), psychology, sociology, and yes, feminist and gender theory.
I’m sorry you think that any research that pokes holes in the patriarchal version of human evolution (i.e., the “cavemen wants lots of young pretty mates, cavewomen just want one high-status mate”) as simply “feminist propaganda.” One could put the shoe on the other foot: since most of these theories came from *white men* who were from an extremely sexist/patriarchal culture, their theories are simply “patriarchal propaganda,” which has been repeated in various formats on down the line.
You know, humans are the only members of the great ape family to practice monogamy, or even polygamy – and not all humans do, at that. So ascribing these cultural assumptions about mating impulses based on something only a small percentage of the entire species does is rather bad science.
But that still doesn’t address my main gripe. Really, do you honestly think that women are somehow obligated to remain the same (physically or mentally) as they did the day they got married? How in the hell is that possible? Anyone – man or woman – who expects their mate will never change is just living in a fantasy world – and columns like yours are enabling that. For goddess’ sake, at least ask an old married couple – you know, the kind with grey hair and wrinkles – for their opinion on loving your partner through unpleasant bodily changes, which normally includes some weight gain – just ask any doctor.
Melissa // March 21, 2009 at 8:12 am |
Wow D.R.! Great column. I agree, it’s a sad day when a woman bases her advice on patriarchal crap. France is one of the most patriarchal countries around, who cares if the women look good? One of the reasons they have to try so hard is because they realize they are living in a patriarchy, their looks help them get what they need/want.
Looking good is *relative* anyway, who is she to tell us what’s beautiful? How about men who prefer fat women?! Sheesh. The Amy Alkon Advice Goddess column is one I’ve only managed to get thru a couple of times as I find her boring but reading the latest one is just plain sad. Maybe one day her self studies will help her learn to think for herself without all those men in her head. Good for you for calling her out.
Starr // March 21, 2009 at 9:05 am |
Her column often leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I’ve wondered if she realizes that the people who write to her are likely to *do* what she says. I often see it as being based on social etiquette rather than honesty and authenticity. I can agree with her that we have health issues in America and that we can be concerned for our partners in that regard, however when someone no longer finds you attractive… there is more going on than a 20lb gain. I’ve never heard her recommend counseling to people, recommend opening conversation with people, talking about needs versus wants. Now granted, I don’t read her often, so hopefully I’ve just missed it somewhere along the way.
I wonder if we can get our local to drop her? Is she really syndicated?
Kephren // March 21, 2009 at 3:41 pm |
Yes, people change, but some of those changes are by choice. I’m 56 and I weigh what I weighed when I graduated from college (6′1″, 175lbs) because I decided it was important to me — after I discovered myself pushing 210.
My wife, who is 28, now works out frequently and is committed to keeping herself slender and attractive since she 1) enjoys wearing fashionable clothes, and 2) she knows that it’s a good thing for the relationship if I remain highly attracted to her.
When she didn’t take care of her weight, I resented it, since I work long hours to support our family while she pursues a career that she finds fulfilling but which breaks even (at best.) The truth is that losing weight and keeping a particular shape isn’t difficult. It’s a matter of choice. Period.
BTW, I’m certain you noticed the age difference between myself and my wife. The primary reason that I married someone significantly younger than myself is that my contemporaries, almost to a woman, seem fixated on blaming their problems on men.
Why should I put up with that kind of man-hating BS, when I can be with a highly educated woman who thinks that gender feminism is “hilarious”? (Welcome to Generation Y, ladies, they’re everything you hate in women.)
Manyhats // March 24, 2009 at 11:04 am |
To me, the issue here is not about gaining a few pounds; rather, it’s about attitude. A woman cannot expect a man to continue being attracted to her when she doesn’t care about keeping herself attractive for him.
Conversely, I have heard many women say that the charming and attractive guy they originally hooked up with is no longer attractive to them, now that he has grown a beer belly from sitting in front of the TV all the time, while feeding his face and drinking his favorite alcoholic beverage.
The fact of the matter is that BOTH parties, if they want to have a good and ongoing sexual relationship, have to work at it; it’s an ongoing project. Otherwise, they can just sit and do the bills together.
This is not about undermining a woman’s value as a person. That should always be respected. It is about keeping one another interested sexually. These are two different things. Sexual attraction can be maintained regardless of eventual wrinkling and weight gain. It cannot be accomplished when one completely ignores and then condemns the desires of, and the natural makeup of their partner. All this will bring about is a breakdown in communication.
Jennie McKenzie // March 24, 2009 at 11:54 am |
Amen!
I just sent her this:
“Everybody loses their looks eventually. What advice will you give 20 years from now, when this same man writes to complain that his wife’s skin is sagging and her hair is thinning and turning gray? Will you tell her to get plastic surgery and a wig? If she declines, will you tell him it’s OK to leave her for a younger woman? And tell her that
his leaving is OK, he’s just hard-wired that way?
“Any woman would feel insecure if she thought her husband’s love was so conditional and dependent on her youthful appearance – and maybe insecure enough to turn to sweets – or to a sweeter man.
“I feel sorry for both of them, if his love hasn’t deepened after seven years of togetherness.
“Your approach is just a temporary, surface solution. It doesn’t address the real issue here, the difference between loving someone for their looks and loving someone for who they are as a person.”
Jennie
Kephren // March 25, 2009 at 1:37 pm |
Jennie completely misses the point.
I, in fact, am the person who wrote Amy the original letter. I love my wife and intend to stay with her and help raise our two children regardless of whether or not she gains weight.
However, if that happens, there won’t be much sex for either of us because I am not sexually attracted to heavy women. And that’s not going to change. And don’t think I haven’t tried to change it.
Crap, my life would be SO much easier if a flabby midsection got my rotor going. But it just doesn’t work for me. Some other guys, maybe, but not me. And my wife knew that when she married me.
Jennie, would you have sex with a man you love if he didn’t care enough about the relationship to brush his teeth and take a bath? Why then do you expect me to do the same thing??
Why is it shallow to be turned off by a giant unnecessary wad of human fat, but perfectly reasonable to find body odor offensive? Both are optional behaviors.
Look… Losing weight and keeping it off is nothing. Nothing. It’s simple. It’s trivial. Yeah, I know everybody has an excuse, but it all comes down to the same thing — eating less energy than you expend.
What drove me crazy is that my wife previously didn’t think that the small sacrifice was worth it, when I’m putting in 12 hour days in order to keep this family afloat.
While I’ll do everything I can to be pleasant and fulfill my commitments as a husband and father, if my wife DECIDES to gain weight, I’m not going to be happy because I have a basic need to be greatly attracted to my wife.
It’s a need as strong as her need to be a mother. For me, her weight gain and her statement that she was “satisfied with her weight” was EXACTLY the same as if I had announced, after making promises to the contrary, that I didn’t want to have any children. That would have made her miserable, and rightly so.
Luckily, my wife apparently understood me when I explained the situation to her in terms of it being a basic need. And she’s dropped 10 pounds in three weeks, because (horror of feminist horrors) looking good for me is now more important than eating a 1200 calorie muffin every morning.
My God, you’d think I was asking her to cut off a leg or something, the way you ladies complain about it.
D.R. Bartlette // March 25, 2009 at 4:00 pm |
Sorry, Kephren, but losing weight isn’t easy. It isn’t “nothing.” Millions of Americans struggle for years to lose weight to no avail. It is the most difficult, and for many, impossible, things to do. And the lucky ones who do lose weight – over 90% of them *gain back even more than they lost.* Add to the fact that a woman’s metabolism naturally changes after pregnancy & childbirth and it’s totally normal to gain around 10 – 20 lbs. And in a way, what you are asking isn’t so different from asking a woman to cut off a body part – fat is part of our bodies. The gut you so hate is *her body.* When you tell her her “weight” turns you off, you are telling her that *she* turns you off. And don’t try comparing it to BO or bad breath – a simple bath or toothbrushing “cures” those problems. Fat is a part of our bodies; it can’t just be washed off.
I’m sorry your sexuality is so shallow. I’m sorry that you can’t be excited by your *wife,* by who she is and how much you love her, instead of just how her body looks.
Maybe you’d be better off whacking off to airbrushed, underweight porn models. And if the cost for financial support while she raises your children is that you have total control over her body, then maybe she’d be better off as a single mom earning her own paycheck.
Kephren // March 25, 2009 at 4:26 pm |
DRB:
My wife and I adopted both children, so your remarks about childbirth are completely irrelevant. And even if she had given birth there are plenty of women who lose the extra weight and keep it off.
Losing weight and keeping weight off is easy. You simply start eating less and start exercising more. All the excuses that people give are just so much BS. If you’re carrying extra weight, it’s because you don’t want to eat healthy and exercise. Period.
The fact that millions of people have failed to lose weight means nothing. Millions of people succeed, too. You’re treating weight gain as if it’s a foregone conclusion. It’s not. It’s a choice. Always.
I’ll grant you that fat is different than body odor. But what about a scratchy ugly beard? That would be part of my body, too. Or really long fingernails.
Hey, maybe I should grow a big scratchy beard and long, gross fingernails and then act all offended when my wife thinks it looks and feels ridiculous and doesn’t want to have sex with me. After all “it’s part of my body!!!” — “why can’t you love me the way I am?????”
Would she be shallow for not wanting to sleep with me if I decided to model my appearance after the hillbillies in the movie Deliverance? As Yoda once said: “To me a break please give.”
Does taking 20 pounds off require more effort than getting a haircut or cutting my nails? Sure. But the extra fat is no more part of who you are than any other extraneous and unnecessary part of your body.
What’s shallow isn’t my sexuality. What’s shallow is that you’re unable to see that your viewpoints about what men “should” want is based upon an unreal and increasingly dated ideology. So what if I prefer slender women? What do you care?
Nobody has EVER controlled ANYTHING about my wife. Cripes, she’s got the strongest will of anybody I’ve ever met and is stubborn as a (very beautiful) mule. But you wouldn’t get that, because you’re too invested in 1980’s “blame the patriarch” feminism to see that there’s nothing going on here other than the normal give-and-take of a relationship.
I make sacrifices to keep her happy. Lots of them. I’ve asked her (no, begged her) to make an extra sacrifice and stop eating the sugary crap. She’s agreed and is already seeing the results. Our relationship has never been better.
The only one who seems all bent out of shape about the situation is you.
Kephren // March 25, 2009 at 5:17 pm |
Just one more thing…
I think it’s hil-ar-ious that this blogger’s idea of feminism is apparently:
“Women can do anything they set their mind to do… except lose weight.”
I guess losing weigh is just too complicated a concept for weak little female minds to wrap themselves around, eh?
Andy Reid // March 25, 2009 at 6:15 pm |
My dear wife weighs 35 pounds more than when we first met. But I am even more attracted to her now. Why? Because she is the kindest, gentlest, and most compassionate person I have ever known, and we have shared many joys and sorrows over the years.
There’s a big difference between physical love (eros) that is all about wanting to meet one’s own needs, and unconditional, unselfish love (agape), wanting to help the other person to have their needs met.
I feel sad for this man, and even sadder for his wife. I hope for her sake that she is never disfigured in an accident. What would he do then, if his love for her is so shallow?
Kephren // March 25, 2009 at 7:03 pm |
Andy, my man, I’m glad you’re happy, but you’re confusing the issue.
My wife’s weight gain wasn’t the result of some horrible accident; it was the result of bad decisions at the refrigerator. And the weight gain was a phenomenon that was easily changed, as evidence by her easily changing it.
You are also willfully missing the point that I love my wife and am willing to stick by her even if she gains plenty of weight. I’m just not going to be sexually attracted to her.
Does that mean that I’m going to be mean to her? No, it means that I won’t be able to get, uh… aroused. Unlike her weight gain, that’s something over which I have no control.
Maybe I’ll feel differently after we’ve shared some more joys and sorrows, as you put it. Hope so. But that’s then, this is now. Right now, there’s no reason why she can’t cater to what I find attractive. In fact, since she also wants to have an active sex life, it’s in her own interest.
And keep your “sadness” to yourself. Frankly, your life sounds pretty darn sad to me. Any time I hear a guy talking about eros versus agape, it’s somebody who’s let his religion castrate him. And man, that’s really sad.
Andy Reid // March 25, 2009 at 7:44 pm |
Actually I’m not at all religious – I chose those terms because there’s just no better way to express that difference.
I’d rather sleep with my wife than the most slender or beautiful model, simply because I love her and feel close to her. I hope some day you can feel the same about your wife.
Rebecca // June 19, 2009 at 2:51 pm |
Good for you, Andy. It sounds as though you have a wonderful relationship which is intimate in the most important ways. Thanks for speaking up. Three cheers, huzzah, *shakes pom-poms*
Jamey // March 25, 2009 at 8:15 pm |
Seems to me (for me) the most important consideration is what kind of weight your sweetheart is putting on. Even people in good shape tend to put a little on as they get older, unless they’re a bit Spartan in one fashion or another. And if you’re having to be Spartan for someone else’s desire, you’re working too hard. Unless she’s into submission, she’ll eventually find another job with less work and better pay.
On the other hand, I don’t think it’s a choice between eros and agape. Why not have both? But part of unselfish love is wanting what’s best for the other person, and part of that is wanting them to be healthy. Nothing wrong, and a whole lot right, with being in good shape. Just because our culture has drifted toward passive, lazy gluttony, there’s no reason we shouldn’t beat the drum against it, especially at home.
So if she’s putting on weight from lazing around and pigging out on crap, damn straight you should be after her to change her ways. But if she’s just relaxing in the relationship after bootcamping herself to be your (or someone’s) trophy honey, then best of luck on that end of the pool. I’ll stay over here where the little tykes don’t pee so much.
Jamey // March 25, 2009 at 8:27 pm |
BTW, I forgot to say, I LOVE the Advice Goddess column. I think Amy is funny and sharp as hell. I think, though, she could’ve been more balanced in her answer this time. That initial letter contained a lot of possibilities – there were hints in several directions, not all of them favorable to the plaintiff. Maybe Amy’s been pumping a bit too hard for Mr. Goodbar herself – it’s hard for a single girl out there.
Kephren // March 25, 2009 at 9:30 pm |
Andy, let’s get serious here.
Suppose I gave you a choice between 1) your wife with her current personality and her current body, and 2) your wife with her current personality and the body of a model.
Which do would you rather have sex with?
If you say “1,” we all know you’ll be lying.
Of course, you’ll probably try to change the question with something like “everything we’ve shared together is reflected in who she is today.” Yeah, right. I believe that…
The choice I gave you was basically the choice I had. So I asked. And I received. The relationship is better, now, because I’m happier.
What is the freakin’ big deal??
I’ll tell you exactly what’s going on here. The blogger has weight issues of her own and can’t stand the idea that her weight problems are her own fault.
And you’ve accommodated yourself to your wife’s weight issues probably because you don’t want to face that fact that she’s too weak willed to find the time to exercise for 30 minutes a day.
In other words, none of this is about my relationship with my wife. It’s about your relationship with your refrigerator.
Andy Reid // March 25, 2009 at 10:23 pm |
The choice you gave me is completely irrelevant. I am already totally in love with her. I couldn’t love her or desire her any more than I already do. I sincerely hope you can find the same kind of joy.
Kephren // March 26, 2009 at 3:55 am |
Andy,
OK, then, let’s play a little mind game…
Suppose your wife suddenly decided to have a bad temper. She begins berating you and calling you an idiot, etc., on a daily basis. Maybe gets a little violent now and then.
I wonder how long you’d be “totally in love with her” if that behavior continued. You’d probably start looking for a divorce. And rightly so.
The reason you can be totally in love with your wife even though she’s grossly overweight is that you value her personality over her appearance.
How shallow of you.
How deep can your love for her be if you wouldn’t be willing to be “totally in love with her” when she’s acting like a complete b*tch?
Oh, by the way, one reason that women gain weight in a marriage is that it’s a superb form of passive aggression. So maybe the scenario I’ve laid out isn’t all that far from your reality.
You’re just too fooled by your self image as a “totally loving” person to see that, if she really loved you, she’d care more about her appearance.
Andy Reid // March 26, 2009 at 9:27 am |
If my wife was unhappy, I would want to help whatever is causing that. I would listen to see what the underlying cause was. If I needed help, I would consult with a professional therapist, not a newspaper columnist.
What you keep missing is that the best way to find pleasure (physically or emotionally) with another person is to put their needs first.
Andy Reid // March 26, 2009 at 10:23 am |
PS to Kephren:
I cannot devote the rest of my life to this correspondence, as it seems to have no end in sight, so I will leave you with this thought, from the author Harper Lee: “Love, then, is a paradox – to have it, we must give it.”
Good wishes to you and your family.
Kephren // March 27, 2009 at 7:17 am |
Here’s what this blogger thinks is good advice:
“Maybe you’d be better off whacking off to airbrushed, underweight porn models. And if the cost for financial support while she raises your children is that you have total control over her body, then maybe she’d be better off as a single mom earning her own paycheck.”
This is a perfect example of the shortsighted stupidity of gender feminism.
Because I had the audacity to beg my wife to lose some weight, this blogger thinks that she’d be better off as a single mother.
If she had the intelligence to actually do research rather than just spout dogma, she’d know that one-parent families, specifically fatherless ones, are toxic to children. There is a direct correlation between fatherlessness and juvenile delinquency, depression and host of other problems.
But beyond that, there are two children involved. This blogger is suggesting that my children suffer through a separation, after already experiencing the death of their biological parents and near starvation.
All because I had the gall to ask my wife to cut down her consumption of sugary sweets.
But the truth is that this blogger doesn’t care two cents about my wife, my children or our relationship. For that matter, her anger is only expressing itself in terms of feminist gobbledegook.
What’s really going on here is that this blogger is furious that she can’t get her own weight under control and sees me as one of the thousands of guys who’ve checked her out over the years and said with their eyes: “Next!”
There’s no other reason that she’d get so angry over something that’s so insignificant. And to make my point, I challenge her, right here and now, to state her weight and height.
If, as she says in her responses above, that weight shouldn’t be an issue, and that weight gain isn’t anyone’s fault, and extra fat is “part of you,” then she should be proud of what she weighs, relative to her height.
So, how about it? Have you got the guts to put walk the walk… or are you just another angry feminist who want to talk the talk?
D.R. Bartlette // March 28, 2009 at 3:43 pm |
Kephren, I’m not exactly sure what you’re calling me out to do here. What’s your challenge? To publicly declare my weight? Well, too late. That’s been public knowledge for years. Yes, I’m big and I’m proud. I haven’t “struggled with my weight” because I haven’t honestly tried to lose it. Why? To quote Jack Black in “School of Rock”: “Because I love to eat.” Well, and probably because I’m on hormones for a health condition, but I’m not going to deny that my love of fattening foods is a factor as well.
Sure, some guys – mostly young, shallow white guys – give me that “ewww, fat chick” look, but I could care less. Impressing men – or catering to their “visually oriented libidos” is the last thing in the world I would do. And yet…I have NO PROBLEM finding dates/boyfriends. None. When I am single, it’s by choice. Now why is that? If indeed the male libido is so “hard wired,” as you and Amy are claiming, then how am I so successful at getting guys? Because for one, it’s not hard-wired. It’s a matter of personal preference. Some guys like big round women. Some prefer thin women. Whatever. Neither one is more valid than the next. But I think it’s even deeper than that: I have self-confidence and personality – the sexiest traits anyone, man or woman, can have.
I’m not trying to say you don’t have the right to your preference – all I’m trying to say is that it is shallow for you to let that *preference* have so much power over your relationship with someone who is supposedly your life partner. How would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot, and her love for you was dependent upon you remaining exactly the same way you were when you were married? I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that she’s simply overeating; perhaps in a passive-aggressive attempt to defy this ultimatum you’ve put on her, perhaps because she’s depressed; perhaps because she’s got a thyroid disorder. Who knows. That’s why I suggest counseling – for BOTH of you.
Amy Alkon // March 27, 2009 at 2:13 pm |
Sorry, Kephren, but losing weight isn’t easy. It isn’t “nothing.” Millions of Americans struggle for years to lose weight to no avail. It is the most difficult, and for many, impossible, things to do.
Did you even read what I wrote? Go back and read what I reported about Gary Taubes’ work.
I weigh less than what I did in high school because I don’t starve myself, nor do I eat refined carbohydrates. For breakfast today, I had two eggs, cooked in butter, with cheese on top, and a slice of bacon. For lunch, I had tuna with melted cheese on top. I’m not hungry because my food has fat in it. Also, I eat reasonable-sized portions, not the vast American portions so many just scarf down as if at a trough.
Male sexuality isn’t a plot against women. It’s hard-wired and not changeable no matter how many feminist reeducation camps you put a man through. Women, likewise, go for providers — men who earn a good living and have potential. This isn’t a plot against men; it’s hard-wired into our genes. The fact that your ancestors weren’t so dim that they settled for ugly women or men who couldn’t earn their keep is probably why you’re here to spout your claptrap about “the patriarchy.” Oh, hurl.
Amy Alkon // March 27, 2009 at 2:26 pm |
Maybe Amy’s been pumping a bit too hard for Mr. Goodbar herself – it’s hard for a single girl out there.
It’s amazing to me when people make assumptions about me based on nothing.
I am not single. I’m in a relationship that’s apparently so visibly happy to others that we’re asked if we’re newlyweds every few months. My boyfriend is the best person I know, and treats me wonderfully.
I don’t believe in marriage or in living together, FYI, but my boyfriend and I have been together for six years, and his happiness means everything to me. When he had to stay overnight at the hospital — when my book was due the coming week, and I was on deadline for my column — I refused to leave. It was one of our few fights. I won (by saying “You wouldn’t ditch me and go home!”) They were out of cots, so I slept on a sheet on the freezing cold, hard floor next to his bed at Cedars-Sinai and worked the nurses (with a smile and a lot of gratitude) so he got the best care, and expediently, too.
Whoops, sorry, would you call that pandering to the patriarchy…or just having a really good relationship?
D.R. Bartlette // March 28, 2009 at 3:48 pm |
Just want to chime in that those were not my comments. I have made no assumptions about your relationship status. As for what you did for your partner, I call that being a kind and devoted partner. It’s the kind of behavior I would expect anyone – man or woman – to do for the one they love.
Amy Alkon // March 27, 2009 at 2:36 pm |
If I needed help, I would consult with a professional therapist, not a newspaper columnist.
Why do you assume therapists are qualified and good and that a newspaper columnist would be less qualified?
Albert Ellis, one of the founders (with Aaron Beck) of cognitive behavioral therapy, was a fan of my thinking and my column. I asked Al (who died in his 90s a few years ago) whether I should get a degree in therapy and then train at his Institute. Al’s response: “You know everything you need to know. It would be a waste of time.”
I find it somewhat hilarious that the commenter thinks it’s wise to assume that because somebody has official training in a field that they are good.
I train every week in what I do — there’s an epidemiologist (one of the country’s finest) who kicks my ass on what is and isn’t good research, to name one example. I go to the same conferences and read the same journals as professionals in psychology, ev. psych, sexology, anthropology, and family studies. I know many of the top researchers, and I’m respected by them for accurately judging and putting out their work so it can make a difference in the life of the average person.
How many of you go to therapists who haven’t read a single study since they got out of school — unless it’s posted in a piece on CNN?
D.R. Bartlette // March 28, 2009 at 4:00 pm |
I’m willing to give you the point about certified therapists not necessarily being any more qualified than you or I. Point certainly taken. But my original suggestion, for both of them to see a counselor, comes down to these two things:
1. In a marriage counselor’s office, both sides could be heard and gone into in much more depth than simply a 500-word letter.
2. I have yet to read a column of yours where you counsel honest, compassionate communication of needs. Your columns tend to follow a pretty pat formula: a declaration that men or women all like or dislike something, or they behave a certain way (as if we are all the same), so therefore the letter writer must somehow conform to the “appropriate” gender stereotype. Like telling a woman not to call a guy to ask for a date or telling a guy he’s perfectly justified to expect “his woman” to conform to his physical qualifications. I have never read you encourage someone to be their authentic self, and to expect to be accepted as they are – sensitive man, fat woman, whatever. There is enough love to go around. We don’t all fit in these boxes; the boxes aren’t even real.
I’m even willing to apologize for the hostile nature of the title of the post. I was angry; as a big woman, I expect the same respect anyone else is entitled to. I’m really tired of hearing and reading shit like this, that we don’t have the right to be the size we are because “men don’t like it.” Whatever.
Jamey // March 27, 2009 at 4:51 pm |
You go on with yo’ bad self, Amy! Whenever you read something someone you don’t know wrote, you have to use at least a little imagination to figure out who the person is behind the words and what their motives are, at least I do. Don’t you? There are tons of possibilites, but only a few ounces of reality; it’s easy to sniff down the wrong trail, possibly issuing a couple of inappropriate barks on the way.
But I did say “maybe”.
Keep up the fun columns!
Kephren // March 29, 2009 at 8:47 am |
Well, I wasn’t going to comment further, but it’s either that or do the taxes. Yes, it’s true that some men like heavy women. (I suspect that our friend Andy is one of them, BTW.) The basic need, in a generic sense, is that a husband needs his wife to be “hot” — however he defines it. And it should be OK to make reasonable requests to cater to a husband’s idea of hot-i-tude.
The key here is reasonable. It’s unreasonable to expect a 60 year old woman to look like a teenager, for instance. Or to expect a person who’s been overweight her entire life to suddenly turn into Kate Moss. (eeewww….)
I’ve bowed to the inevitable several times in fairly major ways in this relationship. My wife’s extra weight wasn’t and isn’t inevitable, so it was and is reasonable for me to ask her to lose it.
You are precisely correct that women who are not thin can be sexy if they’ve got the right attitude. Polynesian women are very, very good at this. And it is possible to be healthy and be significantly larger than what today’s fashions encourage.
That being said, the poles of thin and heavy can be unhealthy. Anorexia and gross obesity are two sides of the same coin. I don’t know if you watched The Sopranos, but in one telling scene, the slightly heavy daughter of the very heavy mob wife are having a bridal conversation about weight loss, while the other daughter, clearly anorexic, gets upset that they’re always talking about food.
In any case, you don’t have to be the “right size” in some objective sense, only the right size for the person that you’re with. But all that aside, the problem with your posts is your politics, which blinds you to biological reality. Imperfect though our understanding of that may be, men have tended to be visually oriented since the first caveman made a (very heavy) female goddess statue to worship. (And I’ll bet it was a guy…)
The problem that I see in your post is that your politics lead you to see men and normal male behavior through crap-colored glasses. It’s a failing that’s built into gender feminism. And I do think that it stings you, at least a little bit, that you don’t conform to today’s standards of TV-style beauty.
I do give you BIG credit, though, for admitting that the real reason you’re the weight that you are is that you like eating certain foods more than you want to be thinner. Even though you hinted at the old “it’s my hormones” excuse, it’s clear that you know that weight is a choice. Which it is.
halifax // March 29, 2009 at 10:10 pm |
Amy is a member of the totally hard wired school of Evo Pscyh. So are the vast majority of her followers, who are stunningly virulently whackjob MRA -types who fully believe that men are the ones who’ve always been screwed over. Most practicing members of Evo Biology take a dim view of the sensationalistic nonsense that passes for the science that Amy and her supporters cling to.
One simple example. ‘Men are hardwired to like thin women’. Except that thin has only been in vogue for less than a century, not enough time to undo the ‘hard wiring’. Most times in the past, a really thin women was a clear sign of poor health. Shifting cultural preferences would be a far more likely explanation, but alas, that’s off limits for most.
Also what these MRA’s don’t consider is the world they want would be a hell of lot more unfair to the vast majority of them. The things they complain about, dangerous jobs, war-who did these things to them? It wasn’t women. And without marriage, going back to old school, only the top dog gets the women, the rest are lucky to get anything. This is the idealized world they want to go back to. Explain to them that it’s they who are brainwashed and wait for the firestorm. Reality is too uncomfortable. Everybody is taking things away from them, the women, the blacks, you name it. They complain about ‘whiny’ feminists, but they have whiny down to an art form.
As far as the guy who can’t get feelings for his wife, he has a genuine concern, but the approach is all wrong. It was all about him, and not about the two of them.
Joanie // March 30, 2009 at 6:44 am |
Why is it men can grow old without scrutiny – grow a rotund belly, lose the majority of their hair, have a face dripping with wrinkles, yet….remain free of critical scrutiny?
They can age on TV and even in the White House (Who was it that said, “Do we really want to see Hillary age in the WH?). They can devote all the time it would take to perfect themselves on intellectual or spiritual pursuits.
Now, if only women could do the same… Perhaps when women like Amy B leave to find other more interesting pursuits themselves.
Melissa // March 30, 2009 at 8:46 am |
I’m offended by Amy and her answer seeking writer making generalized statements about “gender feminists” and “the patriarchy” because they are spreading sensationalism and nastiness. Show me our world *without* the Feminist movement. Of course there are flaws in the movement but without it I’m certain Kephron wouldn’t have the woman he loves and married *at all* but she’d have been much easier to control.
Just as men – I assert – *can* become hard wired to be only attracted to unnaturally slim women via Porn growing up, women *can* become hardwired to actually think for themselves, support themselves, and do good work in and for the world at large via the Feminist movement.
We’ve all got to learn to get along regardless of our belief systems. To me, Kephron already knew the answer to his question when he wrote Amy and perhaps it was even a set up so their version of feminism would get some props.
Sounded like D.R. wasn’t saying *her* hormones caused weight gain as much as prescription hormones for a medical problem did. On that point, many people gain weight not because of poor eating choices but because of injuries, poverty, ignorance, no medical care, lack of vegetables for sale inner city markets, genetic markers, heritage (Native Americans almost always get obese eating today diet regardless of how much they eat), or thyroid malfunctions. Judge not.
Kephron, maybe you could simply have weekly weigh-ins with your wife you could cheer each other on. It’s strange to me that you’d want her to have the same body weight for life since we all gain a little bit of weight as we age and shrink in height (wait till you see her belly after she shrinks a couple good inches!). It seems unrealistic to me, but you married young on purpose. You could always trade her in later when and if, you realize that the aging process doesn’t turn you on either and your kids are out of the house.
Amy, you are a newspaper columnist. Not a licensed counselor – you are in this for entertainment, seriously, not to genuinely help people otherwise you’d get an office, a couch, and you’d stop trying to be so funny.
Counseling takes time, commitment, and careful choice, Amy simply re-hashes stuff she’s read based on one question in order to get more readers. True counselors aren’t interested in how many people enjoy their advice or how many readers they have. Amy is required to be in order to make a living.
I would offer that most people DO believe in marriage and/or long-term partnerships, Amy does not. How can you expect to dole out advice with such a vastly different value system on this one point than most Americans? You can’t! Of course not, because you, Amy, are only in it for readers and entertainment. Too bad you’re using your column as a conduit for bad sensationalism. Sounds like you need to start talking to and listening to women in their 80’s, 70’s, and 60’s who actually lived before the Feminist movement. Find out what really happened, what mistakes were made, what it was like to not be able to even open a checking account or get a telephone line without your father or husband’s signature. You make the Feminist movement sound like a great big mistake. This alone is so sad, I definitely won’t be reading your column again and I may even encourage our paper to cease printing it.
Kephren // March 30, 2009 at 10:24 am |
Melissa, everyone has an excuse.
No, people do not automatically gain weight when they get older. What happens is that it takes slightly more effort to maintain the same weight.
Example: Jack LaLanne is 94, works out every morning for two hours and spends one and a half hours in the weight room. He’s in great shape. If he were so inclined, he could kick my sorry ass two weeks from Tuesday, and I’m in pretty good shape.
And all the talk about medication and thyroids is just more excuses. Yes, it’s more difficult for some people to lose weight than others. But the reason people gain weight is because they eat too much. Even if they’ve got a (largely mythical) “thyroid” problem.
Case in point. My wife and I went out with two couples (and their children) with whom we are very close. We ended eating at Pizzaria Uno.
One couple ordered a medium flatbread pizza and a salad, which they split between themselves and their two children (3 and 4). They drank water, with juice for the kids.
The other couple also ordered a medium flatbread pizza and a salad, which they split between themselves and their two children (1 and 3). They drank water, with juice for the toddler. (Baby still nursing.)
The third couple ordered two dinner orders of pasta, and child’s meal of fried chicken fingers — for two people and one 18 month old. They also ordered wine.
I’ll give you one guess which of the three couples is overweight. And has a baby who at 18 months weighs as much as either of the 3 year olds at the table. Both of those adults ate twice as much food as any other adult at the table. And food of the most fattening kind.
Thyroid problem my ass.
Kephren // March 30, 2009 at 10:27 am |
Joanie,
Whining about “why don’t men have to keep in shape” — go ahead and complain all you like, but blaming this fact on men is completely ridiculous.
A man will basically do anything to get laid. (And that is biological.) If women got together and said: “You men shall now wear a 6 foot top knot with red flags on it or you’re not getting any nookie”, you’d see men wearing them. On day one.
Trust me, if a guy could get laid just by hanging around and working out and looking sharp, that’s exactly what he’d do.
Kephren // March 30, 2009 at 11:50 am |
Re: my above comments. I just ran across this in one of Amy’s old columns:
“Studies by evolutionary psychologist David Buss and others actually show that rich, successful women tend to go for even richer, more successful men. Most hilariously, when researchers interviewed high-powered feminist leaders in the late ’70s, these women nattered on about how the right man for them would be some “very rich” or “brilliant” or “genius” guy who’d leave large tips after buying them lavish dinners.”
So, Joanie and everyone…. you dating losers? It would be nice to know that you put your romance where your mouth is.
Manyhats // April 1, 2009 at 11:44 am |
Kephren,
Since you had been commenting here so much I clicked on your name and then…Lo and behold! I found the Borg War Movie! I hadn’t heard of it before and all I can say is that it’s been a real treat. I now have only chapter 8 and the epilogue to watch. I’m saving those for a rainy day, which where I live, will be tomorrow. Thanks for having them on You Tube and helping out a Star Trek fan!
Kephren // April 8, 2009 at 4:53 am |
Hate to reactivate this, but lest anyone, but since the notion that male provider/female consumer is a biological reality has been questioned, here’s “game, set and match” on this issue:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7988169.stm
bill // April 27, 2009 at 3:07 pm |
This has been amusing. Ms. Alkon knows if she is at all educated in the field she claims to be that there are few consenses in psychology.
But what I find really amusing are the excessive defenses on her part and on the part of the husband. I wonder what a psychologist might say about their lack of confidence in their convictions here.
Divine // May 12, 2009 at 3:58 pm |
Blog writer: Amy Alkon beats you everytime!
bjaenu9we // June 13, 2009 at 8:35 am |
Amy’s opinions are not that bad but her writing style sucks . She needs to hire an editor STAT.
MacKenzie // June 16, 2009 at 6:35 pm |
Good for you, blog writer. I agree with everything you have said, and I find Amy Alkon and this husband who keeps coming in here to overheatedly defend himself in just the sexist way he says he isn’t particularly pathetic.
Thank you for writing, you wonderful, intelligent lady. It’s people like you that pick me up after reading the stupidity and bigotry that flows from the fingers and mouths of people like Amy Alkon.
As far as Kephren goes – holy crap I feel sorry for your wife.
Electron Blue // June 18, 2009 at 4:23 pm |
Just tell me something, Amy. If sexuality is so hard-wired, then how does one gain fetishes throughout one’s life? Why just yesterday I developed a preference for black women. Literally, yesterday.
j // July 5, 2009 at 10:31 am |
So – hormones are always just an excuse?
In that case I’d like someone to explain what happened to me. I’ve maintained the same size and weight for a long time. Then a few months ago I made the (in hindsight stupid) decision to have a contraceptive injection, which is known to have potential weight gain as a side effect. With NO change in diet or exercise philosophy from before, the weight piled on. And because this hormone is retained in the system for a long time, losing the weight is borderline impossible at the moment.
I say again – NO diet change, NO difference in exercise and yet a large amount of weight piled on in a very short time.
AF // August 11, 2009 at 10:33 am |
Great post. – Since Sodini I’ve been clicking around on various Feminist blogs (many more than I usually visit) and also checking out a few of the “men’s rights” sites… and a few hours ago I happened upon “Men’s News Daily” http://mensnewsdaily.com/amyalkon/?author=2 , and lo and behold there are a bunch of Amy Alkon columns.
What a horrible person she is. And what a horrible person this “Kephren” is. I couldn’t help thinking that, if he’s really so concerned about the li’l ladies figure, he should be spending less time commenting on the interturd and more time policing what she eats.
Kephren says: My PENIS! Who’s gonna take care of my PENIS?! Waaaaaaah.
I’m betting a grand he’s never found a clit in his life. Not that he’d bother looking for it.
txtacky // September 26, 2009 at 10:03 pm |
This is late in the comments, but I have had the unfortunate opportunity to engage with Amy Alkon. Very immature woman, and hateful. I just hope Kephrins wife has left by now. If not she surely must be so broken that she has no self worth to leave. Poor woman.
txtacky // September 25, 2009 at 7:37 pm |
Amy Alkon equates marriage as a contract. Only the woman can’t change, she must look 19 at 40. I have always thought marriage is a form of legalized prostitution. I sign this paper and say vows for my bills to be paid, he signs and says vows for the sex. If she gains weight contract void, if he loses his job, contract void. Amy tries to come across sensationally to create attention. She is not married because she knows she can’t hold herself to the standards she puts on others. A lot of hock but no spit.
txtacky // September 25, 2009 at 8:00 pm |
Kephrin, are you a small boned man? Do you have to work at looking 19 when you are not. Your harsh words for your wife are contributing to the problem. I think she would be better off without a nitpicker, controlling, micro-manager. She would more than likely lose the weight, especially the weight of your judgmental attitude. Now, be fair, what is your problem, what needs fixing in you. If you think you are perfect, that is the main problem. God Speed for your wife’s escape from YOU.
txtacky // September 26, 2009 at 10:57 pm |
I have noticed out of all the negative comments about Amy A, I never see them on the search engine. Have all her Jewish buddies sanitized her reputation? I never thought badly about Jews, but now I think they can be quite the Mafia when it comes to one of there own, no matter what vile, bile she spews. Interesting.
Groovecat // November 6, 2009 at 3:42 am |
wow–i know this is late in the comments, but i feel compelled to say something.
every, and i mean every, serious girl-friend i’ve ever had made a comment about my weight gain whenever i would stop my work-out/eating plan regimen and just be my “authentic self”. you know, the same guy, but instead of going to the gym 3days on/1 day off weight training split sessions and watching what i eat, i would spend my previous gym time watching all my favorite tv shows and eating all the REALLY tasty foods like cheeseburgers and fries and pizza and donuts and cake and ice-cream whenever i wanted and as much as i wanted, which is what i’d really rather have been doing instead of sweating in the gym every day.
that is my authentic self. sitting at home, watching tv, not working out, eating like a pig,balancing a can of beer on my Buddha belly and not shaving or waxing my back and private man parts. hey! that’s the REAL me. LOVE ME!!!! BOTH EROS AND AGAPE! FOR MY AUTHENTIC SELF!!!!
nope. didn’t happen. they didn’t want to love me in the eros way. they ALL said very nicely that they just weren’t attracted to me any more “in that way”. i mean, they still loved me, but now only as a friend. and this was before i even let it get to the point where was as i described above. so i would start up the workout regimen again, lose my beer gut, get back to a 32 inch waist and 155 lbs on my 5′7″ frame, and they would start to sleep with me again.
god, i feel so used. they only wanted me for my body. even the one i married only wanted me for my body. i mean, as an olympic sprinter, she of all people should know how hard it is, the self discipline required to maintain such a training regimen, and give me some slack. but nope. she wasn’t having it.
we’ve since divorced, and now i get to sit home, watch tv, eat what i want as much as i want, i don’t work out anymore and weigh about 230 lbs now, last i checked. just being my authentic hairy-backed self. but it seems i’m gonna have to be my authentic hairy-backed self alone, unless i wanna rent some female company for a few hours.
not right, not fair, but the way it is.